Tech billionaire Elon Musk attributed President-elect Trump’s election victory, at least in part, to the lengthy podcast interviews he did during the campaign. In an interview late Tuesday with

Through his wealth and cultural influence, Elon Musk undoubtedly strengthened the Trump campaign. WIRED unpacks whether it really was his efforts that sealed the deal for the president-elect.

According to Musk, Trump won over voters by appearing like “a reasonably-minded, smart person who’s not, like, hardcore one way or the other” during those interviews. “They just listen to someone talk for a few hours and that’s how they decide whether, you know, you’re a good person, whether they like you,” he added.